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Post by another_ruined_saturday on Mar 5, 2015 23:05:02 GMT
read that and the more detailed business document. putting the two together and it's actually pretty exciting, particularly as the intention would be for EP to be owned by the co-op.
hard nowadays to allow myself to get my hopes up, but this could be the start of the county comeback! and i am getting my hopes up!
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Post by gazz on Mar 5, 2015 23:14:38 GMT
Not surprisingly it's being pulled apart on MB, but I'm no financial expert, so what do I know.
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Post by hatter_in_macc on Mar 5, 2015 23:27:32 GMT
Tremendous speech by Lees. What he said truly sounded as if it came from the heart. We couldn't wish for a better Captain right now. Thanks for posting that, James. Thanks, too, to Gazza for sharing the piece about ground ownership. Well written, as one might expect, by Dave E. Call me a hopeless romantic - but, taking these two together, I am beginning to see the light...
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Post by gazz on Mar 5, 2015 23:35:10 GMT
I've only just got around to watching Mark's speech, he seems like a really humble lad, and genuine too.
Cheers, James.
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Post by another_ruined_saturday on Mar 5, 2015 23:41:01 GMT
awww bum. i've got all giddy!
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Post by Epworth Hatter on Mar 6, 2015 0:21:37 GMT
Hmmmm, not sure of what to make of this plan. Ot sounds good on first reading and I think the aim of owning EP must be a priority. The fact that they are putting significant money where their mouth is is also very encouraging. It raises a number of questions, though...
What decisions have the current board made that are so 'catastrophic'? Does this just mean the appointment of McUseless and tolerating his incompetence for so long, or is it more than that? The authors wish to have a significant say in how the club is run. What is their credibility and track record in running a successful football club? What assurances do we have that they won't make catastrophic mistakes? I recognise some of the names, but don't know their backgrounds. I don't doubt their passion for County, but people can be sincerely wrong. The last thing we need are enthusiastic, but incompetent business men in charge. What is the rationale behind their risk assessment of the current shareholders giving up their shares? (Pg 17). I'd agree with High Impact as they state it will completely scupper their plans. However, Low Probability? Seems very optimistic given what has happened so far. Gibbons ain't budging and SF ain't either, so it seems. Reading their mitigation, it seems to amount to asking them all nicely to give up their cash. I'd hope that's already been tried a few times already, so what are their grounds for such confidence? Do they really expect them to give it all up for a quid? The debenture forecasts seem decidedly on the optimistic side to me. I know they say it has been externally verified, but I'd like to know the assumptions on which the £250k pa is based as this seems to be on top of season ticket sales. I'd be interested to know how much we make from hospitality at the moment as a 6th Tier club. If the Income / Expenditure assumptions prove to be inaccurate (which is entirely possible as there are inevitably a lot of assumptions on both revenue streams and costs) then how will any shortfall be handled? Who pays the debt? Which costs will be cut and how? In other words, how will they stop us getting into another fine mess? Finally, I hope that none of the people in this document were involved in the unedifying scenes described in hedgie's excellent report of the fans forum.
Sorry if that's dampens any optimism out there, but there are questions that needs answers. This is not a cynical attempt to undermine their plans, but they should be open to scrutiny and they are genuine questions. I'd love for this to be a significant step in re-emergence of County, but remain to be convinced. I look forward to more info from co-op board and others over the coming months. Looking at the time plan, it could be an exciting summer!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 0:39:31 GMT
I've read it. The numbers are worrying to put it mildly. Another concern I have is that maybe would not worry the folk that have created it as some openly are not scared of a phoenix. Not sure either why it has been done in the manner it has (as in non consultation with any party that the plan relies on ie Coop/Club), opinions are split, fans are split...we do not need division, that I am 100% on.
That said, a lot of work has gone into it, and the idea of getting EP back appeals to all. Let's see where this leads to.
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Post by dpc on Mar 6, 2015 3:02:34 GMT
Well having read the P.I.D I just wish this was on the table years ago as I feel this would have (or more chance) worked whilst we was a L2 club.
What worries me is the fact that there is no working capital and would be soley reliant on two things 1.) the current active shareholders dipping into their pockets to pay for things like the VAT bill and 2.) the non active shareholders giving up their stake in the club.
I found the document to be well written and put together. But we cant afford to jump in blind with both feet and for me if the current shareholders who have been supporting county financially agree and the Co-op Members agree then I will support it.
But regardless, A question must be asked why has nobody at 2015 spoke to BK/SMBC about this before as it doesnt seem like rocket science.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 8:00:25 GMT
They have dpc, they are working with exactly the same people, on exactly the same aim.
I am going to think outside the box here, based on Stronger Together...
The ground will be being driven by Lee Townley.
Their 250k is coming from Dave March.
Hows about scrapping the splinter group...
Lee goes back to Coop and drives the ground deal through
The club will already provide a 200/250k+ paying budget, Dave joins the club as a shareholder with his 250k and that goes directly to playing budget...BOOM 350k playing budget and a serious chance of getting into FL in 2 years
Hey presto we get the ground back in the same way and add 125k to plating budget for the next 2 years
Sounds too sensible, but hey, we're are Stronger Together.
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Post by dpc on Mar 6, 2015 8:39:47 GMT
one thing ive learnt with County over the years nothing is Sensible and Simple.
What i can't understand is why Dave March and Co. are/were so aggressive (from reports as i wasnt there) towards what seem like good people who are dipping into their pockets to keep the club going at the fans forum.
Or was it just Passion and emotion that took over them and mistaken as aggression ?
Surely we need Dave and Co. working along side the current active shareholders in the long term plan of things as it seems they have some important building blocks layed down all ready for this plan to move forward. Like you said 77 we're Stronger Together.
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Post by Epworth Hatter on Mar 6, 2015 9:14:56 GMT
Great points, dpc and 77. If everyone has the same aim, then why not work together? Unfortunately it seems that personalities might be getting in the way?
On second reading, there are another issues with the plan:
The PID states that BK will act as mortgage provider. The article says BK refuses to be mortgage provider and that the Council will have to do that. The Council say they are unable to purchase EP, but would underwrite the deal. If anyone who has had dealings with any council will know, you can add 2-3 months onto the time plan if they are involved. I'm also worried about the delaying tactics for STs. Who will cover the (albeit temporary) drop in cash flow and still pay the bills and wages? I also think the threat of a pheonix club needs to be removed from the PID.
There should be no reason why everyone can't work together to achieve the same aims. It sounds like the two separate groups can't achieve what we all want in the time we all want, but together... You do the math!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 11:06:08 GMT
I don't understand any of it and where any of the money is coming from.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can explain it in simple terms for a thicko.
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Post by gazz on Mar 6, 2015 11:27:35 GMT
I don't understand any of it and where any of the money is coming from. Thanks in advance to anyone who can explain it in simple terms for a thicko. Make that two thickos, because to me the plan seems as clear as home made lemonade. Thanks in advance.
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Post by dpc on Mar 6, 2015 12:09:19 GMT
Basically IMHO its about a choice that all people have to make in their own lives at one point or another.
Rent or Buy?
Its being suggested that Loan repayments would be the same ball park figure than what we currently pay in rent.
It was asked if BK/Chesire Sports would under right this loan/mortgage. - They said No. but would be happy to go ahead if SMBC basically stands as a Guarantor/backer.
ALSO
They want all shareholders to give up there shares and debt (loans) for a £1
Ownership of EP and SCFC to be transferred to the Co-op
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 12:13:37 GMT
Basically IMHO its about a choice that all people have to make in their own lives at one point or another. Rent or Buy? Its being suggested that Loan repayments would be the same ball park figure than what we currently pay in rent. It was asked if BK/Chesire Sports would under right this loan/mortgage. - They said No. but would be happy to go ahead if SMBC basically stands as a Guarantor/backer. ALSO They want all shareholders to give up there shares and debt (loans) for a £1 Ownership of EP and SCFC to be transferred to the Co-op Fair enough. Where's the money coming from?
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