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Post by harrogatehatter on Apr 30, 2014 17:55:44 GMT
Another season finished so who stays for the next campaign? Here's my retained ilst
Ormson
Jacobs Lees Charnock Duxbury
Howard Milligan Moke Payne
Dennis
Thoughts?
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Post by gazz on Apr 30, 2014 18:08:40 GMT
I can't possibly comment on this season, but I'm still not convinced by Ormson. I saw a couple of the same mistakes against Harrogate that he's been prone to since I can remember. So because of that, I'm not confident in him at all.
I do not wish to offer an opinion on the players I saw on Saturday, they all seemed to do ok, but some of them could have been playing for their futures in that game, so I'll leave it to the guys who have seen them over the full campaign.
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Post by jimboslovechild on Apr 30, 2014 18:52:29 GMT
I agree with you about Ormson, Gazza. I like him because he's been at the club a long time, and he does have the odd good game, but most of the time you get the distinct impression the defenders don't feel confident about him. And when he's bad, he is abysmal.
I would keep him because I think he is still developing, and it takes time for goalkeepers to become consistent. But we certainly need either competition for the place so we can rotate him when his confidence is shot, or a new first choice keeper.
Having said that, most opposition goalies also seem to have plenty of mistakes in them, so maybe the sad truth is that you don't get solid keepers at this level. But an experienced, tall, commanding old ex-pro would be a great signing IMO.
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Post by gazz on Apr 30, 2014 19:03:23 GMT
I agree with you about Ormson, Gazza. I like him because he's been at the club a long time, and he does have the odd good game, but most of the time you get the distinct impression the defenders don't feel confident about him. And when he's bad, he is abysmal. I would keep him because I think he is still developing, and it takes time for goalkeepers to become consistent. But we certainly need either competition for the place so we can rotate him when his confidence is shot, or a new first choice keeper. Having said that, most opposition goalies also seem to have plenty of mistakes in them, so maybe the sad truth is that you don't get solid keepers at this level. But an experienced, tall, commanding old ex-pro would be a great signing IMO. That's a spot on assessment that, jlc.
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Post by ceefer on Apr 30, 2014 19:10:45 GMT
I d release Charnock.
Unsure about Dennis, and Battersby , fir Dennis just think the service had been poor and he needs a strong striker to play up front with.
Happy with Ormson, he is improving and has kept us in games with great saves. His confidence appeared to drop playing with Tunni , and some bad back passes. Yes be needs to be more vocal but he's working on that.
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Post by sirroger on Apr 30, 2014 19:17:33 GMT
Matt Glennon has done well since leaving us.
Helped Chester win the League and has two good seasons with Halifax.
Maybe he's on Lordy's shopping list as cover for Ormson, assuming Halifax would let him go?
Born in Stockport, played for us, right age & vastly experienced
Just a thought.
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Post by harrogatehatter on Apr 30, 2014 19:30:24 GMT
I didn't mean Charnock, I meant to put O'Halloran!!
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Post by gazz on Apr 30, 2014 19:30:33 GMT
You could make a team that would hold its own in league two from some of the players we've let go since 2015 took over, Rog.
That said, a few of them needed to get out of County before their luck changed. The one who got a ridiculous amount of unfair stick for me was Owain, some of the crap he took from people around me in the CE was disgusting.
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Post by sirroger on Apr 30, 2014 19:36:02 GMT
Must agree about Owain, yes he had his faults, but he's since gone on to do good things at Tranmere. I think a few months he was the Division's Player of the Month.
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Post by hatter_in_macc on Apr 30, 2014 21:34:57 GMT
I didn't mean Charnock, I meant to put O'Halloran!! Glad you corrected yourself there, HH! Yes - retaining O'Halloran is a must, now that he has discovered he can mix it with the best of them in central defence. And that's a sentence I could never have imagined typing halfway through the season...
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Post by another_ruined_saturday on May 1, 2014 0:00:28 GMT
with owain, his confidence seemed to have gone so badly that it was never coming back. it was definitely right for him to go and try to make a fresh start and of course he's done alright at tranmere. any county fan who was at hartlepool when we mugged them with a late winner after owain had single (and double!) handedly kept them out, will know exactly the sort of potential he had.
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Post by another_ruined_saturday on May 1, 2014 0:07:22 GMT
with you on the o'halloran surprise, macca. quite agree. we should definitely retain him.
we've actually got a decent starting back four if we retain them all. it's the other areas of the pitch that need a clear out. i'd let platt, milligan and moses go. none of them have shown, variously, the skill, character or basic fitness that we need in my opinion. i'd also have rid of moke - i keep harping on about it, but all those appearances; no goals, and no assists that i can remember...it's great being able to streak past somebody out wide, but then if you can never, never do anything with it, it's all a bit pointless. i say again in comparison, howard's crossing is awful, but he's got nine goals!
not particularly excited by battersby, but not really seen too much to judge so far. we need a 'number ten' to link the play and help get dennis firing.
even getting rid of half the squad gives us a much more stable platform to build from than last season, or most recent seasons with the exception perhaps of jim's pre-season.
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Post by Admin on May 1, 2014 4:46:24 GMT
To put it simply......from your list
Ormson - Yes
Jacobs - Definitely Lees - Yes Charnock - Maybe Duxbury - Definitely
Howard - Yes Milligan - No Moke - Yes Payne - Maybe
Dennis - Yes
To elaborate a bit more, I agree with the general opinion on Ormson. He is getting better and has shown improvement from the horror show that was August but he does still make mistakes. In a few years he could be a great goalkeeper for us but at the minute we do need a back up goalie who can jump in if needed, not just a fan to sit in a goalie shirt!
Jacobs and Duxbury have been two of our best players in the last 5 or 6 years and must stay. Lees is a good solid centre back so yes I'd keep him. I would definitely keep O'Halloran as he has been one of our best players in the last 2 or 3 months. I would keep hold of Fagbola OR Charnock as a back up, I don't think we need both.
Howard has had a good enough season but I'd only keep him if he was going to play more, he's too good of a player to be a benchwarmer I think. Moke has put in the effort this season and seems to genuinely love the club so I would give him a contract as well. Milligan seems so off the mark for me, he seems sluggish and second to everything, others may disagree but for me Milligan is a definite release. Payne has looked decent when he's come on and deserves another chance over pre-season. Todd should be given a chance over pre-season as well.
I would certainly keep Dennis, even though he's had his troubles in front of goal at times he still has 10 league goals which isn't that bad given the time he missed through injury and the fact we did finish 14th in the league as well. I think if we do keep Dennis it is important to keep Moke and Howard and play them as a 3 man forward line. He played with 3 up front at Curzon and it's obviously the formation he thrives in.
Tunji Moses, Nicky Platt should definitely be released. As for the likes of Churchman and Lofthouse I don't have too much of an opinion on either way.
I've heard rumours that we're supposed to be getting Walshaw and a certain Mr. Adam Griffin from Altrincham over Summer but I've no idea if it's actually true.
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Post by archie on May 1, 2014 8:34:33 GMT
I've only seen the last two matches so a very limited sample. Firstly, Ormson, Duxbury and Todd are already signed up according to the MEN so we'll take that as read. Secondly, each decision has to be based on both football and finances and we aren't privy to the latter so some decisions may not seem right. Each decision also has to be based on whether Lordy feels he's likely to get a better option in. It's not inconceivable that some players might be released but re-signed in a couple of months.
However, with all those riders, of the 12 players who had enough pitch time to take a view I'd definitely keep: Ormson, Jacobs, Lees, O'Halloran, Duxbury, Howard, Dennis. The defence speaks for itself, Howard made a difference against Harrogate and Dennis has shown enough and is also a trier. Unlike most it seems, I'd also be inclined to keep Milligan because he sweeps in front of the defence and is the only outlet other than the long ball. I think the reduction in goals conceded dates from the time that he joined. Having said that, from his demeanour on Saturday I'd guess that he might be on his way. Platt and Lofthouse were unproductive at Colwyn Bay. Lofthouse didn't last long against Harrogate and Platt actually looked better standing in for Jacobs. Both may be ok off the bench (and Lofthouse is still pretty young) but you'd have thought that we could do better. I feel sorry for Moke because he wants to be in the game all the time but, as ars says, he's just not productive and it's difficult to make the case for retaining him.
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Post by another_ruined_saturday on May 1, 2014 22:05:23 GMT
I'd also be inclined to keep Milligan because he sweeps in front of the defence and is the only outlet other than the long ball. I think the reduction in goals conceded dates from the time that he joined. I feel sorry for Moke because he wants to be in the game all the time but, as ars says, he's just not productive and it's difficult to make the case for retaining him. interesting point on milligan, archie. hadn't thought before that he'd contributed to the clean sheets, and like you say, they seem to dovetail with him having settled in. i've thought that was more about having finally found a stable central defensive pairing - i don't think milligan is mobile enough to really screen effectively. in possession, he annoyed me at brackley - i think i probably said in a match thread - because there were occasions with them down to ten men where he had a lot of space in midfield and could have carried the ball and maybe got into a position from which he could hurt the opposition with his passing. instead, he would just hit a long pass, and they weren't very accurate. that suggested to me that his engine's gone, and if we were to retain him, we'd need another CM with plenty of energy to buzz around him. obviously milligan wasn't at the club at the start of the season, but he reminds me a bit of craney who was - too slow to do everything and not very mobile. that craney/hand partnership still gives me sleepless nights. i agree about moke and also feel a bit sorry for him. he's a proper trier, and always shows for everything. he's got some raw talent, but you have to get some end product from a winger/wide attacker, and we just don't from him.
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