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Post by Epworth Hatter on Aug 17, 2018 14:51:01 GMT
Fair points, archie. I agree that rotating the quickies in a 5 test series is a good idea. It should be done in a planned way, though.
I agree with your logic to treat Stokes as if it had never happened, except there is graphic video footage for all to see of him in a drunken brawl. The public (and impressionable kids) certainly won't be able to act as if it never happened.
At best, it's bad PR.
My comment about Stokes being 'lucky' is that I think he was lucky the prosecutors messed up, as you rightly say. He was fairly found not guilty of the charge brought against him. Another day and it could have played out, as you say, with the caution.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2018 15:24:06 GMT
Not only does this send a poor message out to young cricketers who are knocking on the door of the test team As Michael Vaughan has pointed out already, don't you think he'd been punished enough by leaving him out of the Ashes series? I believe missing an Ashes series is punishment enough for his misdemeanours, yes. I also think it is completely ridiculous how long it has taken for - let's face it - a relatively simple case involving 3 men having a drunken scrap to make it through the courts. However, in terms of the timings and the PR aspect to it, rushing him right back into the team days after the court case makes it look like the ECB don't consider his actions worthy of punishment to non-cricket fans. We know he's missed an Ashes and probably just wants to get back playing, but some charity work and some good PR would massively help both Stokes' image and that of the ECB. I think if the seamers are rotated through the next 3 tests then that is fair. Had Woakes not scored that impressive hundred in the last test it could easily have been him being dropped seen as Broad seems to be untouchable? Who knows. Basically, I want to see Curran play some more red ball cricket for England. I want us to have options and depth so we are covered for injuries/unavailability, and so the incumbent know they have to keep performance levels high. If the ECB had said to Stokes "Sorry, mate. These guys have come in and done really well... play a few matches for Durham and win your place back" that would have been fine by me. Ben is such a good cricketer he'll be back in the team in no time, I just think it is important to reward players who have performed excellently by allowing them to keep their place, or at least making it known to them that they have done well and will be afforded more opportunities soon. |
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Post by archie on Aug 17, 2018 15:30:46 GMT
My comment about Stokes being 'lucky' is that I think he was lucky the prosecutors messed up, Fair enough. My misunderstanding. As far as the apology is concerned, I think that should wait until after the ECB disciplinary hearing. His version is that he was acting in self-defence so he can't apologise for that. The drinking is impossible to defend but it's for the ECB to decide if, and by how far, any code of conduct has been breached. He has already lost the vice captaincy and missed several test matches and it's hard to believe that, had it all been dealt with properly by the police followed by an immediate ECB hearing, any punishment would have been more severe. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2018 15:47:58 GMT
Whether acting in self defence or not, the CCTV footage is pretty damning, and at some point Stokes does become the aggressor. He has lost control in that situation, and as a public figure, sportsman and role model he can't let himself do that.
Perhaps questions have to lie with the ECB as to why the players were allowed out so late mid-series? Maybe they can't be trusted to behave like adults?
Guilty of affray or not, he's still put himself in a compromising position that may be partly or wholly his fault. He should at least be contrite, and acknowledge his wrongdoing in my opinion. Hopefully it is something he can learn from, and channel his aggression in the right way, on the pitch, in the future.
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Post by Epworth Hatter on Aug 17, 2018 16:00:34 GMT
That's an excellent post, gts. Spot on and more eloquently states my position that I ever could!
archie, regardless of any hearing, Stokes was drunk and got into a fight. I don't think it matters what the ECB think - he should know he's gone too far.
As a professional cricketer, with a responsibility for the image of the game, he shouldn't have been in that situation. It's just the way it is: if you're a professional sportsperson you can't go out and get drunk and all the risks that that entails. He should apologies for that, regardless of what any hearing says. In fact, he should remove the need for a hearing, hold his hand up and suggest his own punishment. Oh, and show he's learnt his lesson by promising to never do it again.
Not going to clubs and getting drunk is a small price to pay for all that he gets from the sport.
His silence suggests he thinks he's done nothing wrong and he'll wait until an official verdict. If he's then found guilty, he'll have to make an apology under the terms of the punishment - which is no apology at all.
He should show leadership and accept responsibility for his actions right now. He can ignore the fight, but he can't ignore the drunkenness. He'll get a lot more respect from the public and acceptance of him back into the team. The ECB officially exonerating him won't affect the public's opinion of him or cricket in general. The damage will be won - he'll have won the battle, but lost the war.
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Post by gazz on Aug 17, 2018 18:10:46 GMT
A lot of very, very good posts and points being made here, all.
I think the main theme here is that he needs to realise that he'd messed up and, as a professional and international sportsman, has a duty to act responsibly in public and set a better example.
I don't agree that he should be made to apologise, though, simply because he should offer that apology without any prompting whatsoever. This mess was all his own doing, so he has to take full ownership of that and accept responsibility - any apology he then makes may at least carry an ounce of sincerity.
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Post by archie on Aug 18, 2018 8:25:20 GMT
It's possible that he has legal advice to say nothing until the disciplinary proceedings have run their course.
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Post by gazz on Aug 18, 2018 11:10:40 GMT
Good point, archie.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 19:47:46 GMT
James Anderson... simply the best.
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Post by gazz on Aug 26, 2020 6:35:01 GMT
James Anderson... simply the best. This ↑↑↑ If it wasn't for the three dropped catches it would have been the day before! MASSIVE shoes to fill once he decides to call it a day, but let's hope he can help us get another Ashes series under our belts before he even thinks about that! The title 'Legend' has been afforded to many that really haven't been worthy of it, particularly in modern day sport, but The Burnley Express is the epitome of what it takes to fully deserve it. Well done, Jimmy! |
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Post by gazz on Aug 26, 2020 7:26:45 GMT
This from one of the absolute greats of the game says it all: Australian legend Glenn McGrath previously held the record for most wickets taken by a fast bowler with 563, a mark Anderson passed in 2018. "I didn't have the skill level that Jimmy has," said McGrath. "When he's swinging that ball, both ways, in control, there's no one better." McGrath also compared Anderson to India legend Sachin Tendulkar, the leading run-scorer in Test cricket. "He's set the bar a bit like Sachin has," said McGrath. "No one is ever going to catch Sachin in Test cricket for the amount of runs he's scored and the matches he's played. "Jimmy's done the same for fast bowling." www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/53880975 |
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Post by hatter_in_macc on Aug 26, 2020 9:06:20 GMT
The Burnley Express is the epitome of what it takes to fully deserve it. Well done, Jimmy! The Lancashire Claret it's really ok to worship!  Absolutely fantastic achievement. |
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Post by gazz on Aug 26, 2020 10:52:16 GMT
The Burnley Express is the epitome of what it takes to fully deserve it. Well done, Jimmy! The Lancashire Claret it's really ok to worship! Absolutely fantastic achievement. Agreed, mate. Losing your own Simon Jones to injury was a massive blow in my opinion, but Jimmy established himself a few years later and once again we had a devastating swing bowler in our armoury. |
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Post by hatter_in_macc on Aug 26, 2020 15:26:16 GMT
Nice shout-out for Simon Jones, matey. He played fewer than 20 Tests in all, and often gets forgotten when the 2005 Ashes are brought up - but he was absolutely critical to the winning of that series.  |
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Post by gazz on Aug 26, 2020 20:04:26 GMT
Nice shout-out for Simon Jones, matey. He played fewer than 20 Tests in all, and often gets forgotten when the 2005 Ashes are brought up - but he was absolutely critical to the winning of that series. I totally agree with all of that, matey, but he was never forgotten by me. He was an absolutely devastating bowler and I was gutted when he got injured. |
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