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Post by woznorthyorksexile on Jul 21, 2022 16:37:17 GMT
What prompted my fascination with Scottish football is difficult to identify. Possibly it's my Scottish descent, it may be the probability of being able to combine two of my favourite enthusiasms namely watching live football and visiting sites of historical interest (castles mostly) in one day out or, the comforting and traditional style of most Scottish grounds or, as is more likely it's a combination of all these.
So, I thought I'd share some of that enthusiasm and so, by of an introduction to the thread I'll try to provide a description of the Scottish football pyramid which, whilst in some respects is similar to its English counterpart in others, is quite different. To keep it in reasonable bite sized chunks, I will post it in a series of parts.
The Scottish Football Pyramid. Part 1, a brief overview.
One of the differences between the Scottish pyramid and its English equivalent is the relative status of junior and senior football and probably the best way to describe that is to say that, since a reorganisation in 2011, senior clubs are members to the Scottish Professional Football League (SPFL) whereas junior teams are not. As a consequence, junior teams may not enter the Scottish FA cup. There is however, an exception. Since the 2007-08 season, the 3 junior super league champions plus the junior cup winners from the previous season have qualified. For the purposes of keeping this brief, I will describe the super leagues as the thread develops.
Historically, the Scottish non-league game was clearly separated from the professional game in the same way that it was south of the border. The last team to be elected to the Scottish league were Ferranti Thistle, formerly the works team of Edinburgh’s Ferranti factory. They promptly changed their name to Meadowbank Thistle after their home stadium until, faced by extinction due to financial problems they relocated to Livingston and renamed themselves after the town providing them with their new home.
After the amalgamation of the Scottish Premier League with the Scottish League in 2013, promotion and relegation from the football league has been achieved via the play-off method whereby the winners of the Highland and Lowland Leagues play each other for the right to play the team finishing bottom of the Scottish League 2. As a result, Bonnyrigg Rose FC will take their place in League 2 having defeated Fraserburgh for the right to play Cowdenbeath in the final, a tie they won 4-0 over two legs.
Just to demonstrate to those of us who grind our teeth at the thought of clubs being moved from town to town a la Wimbledon/MK Dons, in the manner of some US style sporting franchise and that the only thing that talks to Scottish football administrators as indeed it does to their English counterparts is money, in 2002 Airdrieonians FC went out of business. In the election that followed, Gretna were elected to the league as a replacement, this despite a local businessman reforming the defunct club as Airdrie United. Undeterred, said businessman bought struggling Clydebank FC, renamed them Airdrie United and relocated them to....Airdrie, with his reconstituted club replacing this newly acquired club in the league. The Scottish FA has since recognised a name change back to Airdrieonians.
The Scottish competitive season has already started so I’m off up to Gretna on Saturday for the home team’s clash with University of Stirling FC so part 2 of the description of the Scots pyramid will concentrate on the Lowland League and provide some background on both clubs and Gretna's stadium.
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Post by bringbacklenwhite on Jul 21, 2022 18:30:11 GMT
Interesting read Woz. Thank you.
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Post by gazz on Jul 21, 2022 18:38:04 GMT
I remember Meadowbank Thistle, Yorks but I honestly never knew they ended up in, and being renamed as, Livingston. That's a great read, mate, I'm looking forward to the next part.
Excellent work!
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Post by hatter_in_macc on Jul 22, 2022 10:00:56 GMT
Really interesting read, Yorks - cheers!
Clydebank really was a strange entity of a club during its League days. A bizarre episode in the '60s saw them merge with East Stirling, whose owners were looking to relocate - and 'ES Clydebank' briefly appeared on the pools coupons before the two clubs uncoupled.
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Post by woznorthyorksexile on Jul 22, 2022 12:51:28 GMT
Really interesting read, Yorks - cheers! Clydebank really was a strange entity of a club during its League days. A bizarre episode in the '60s saw them merge with East Stirling, whose owners were looking to relocate - and 'ES Clydebank' briefly appeared on the pools coupons before the two clubs uncoupled. The game north of the border has seen its fair share of questionable practice over the years to be sure. The demise of Third Lanark is another case in point. Mind you, having said that, didn't Leeds United rise from the ashes of Leeds City and I'm fairly certain Leicester Fosse also folded before rising phoenix like as Leicester City? I suspect that you don't have to look far beyond money as the cause of most of it. As far as I know, the club that the owners of East Stirlingshire acquired was Clydebank Juniors and it was this club that played during the 1964/65 as East Stirling Clydebank or ES Clydebank. They played just the one season although I believe that most Scottish football historians count the club as still being East Stirling. The club that was acquired was a junior club, as the 3 previous senior iterations of Clydebank FC had already gone bust. After East Stirling returned to Falkirk for the 1965/66 season, their now former owners stayed at Clydebank which joined the league in 1966. It was this fourth iteration of the club which was acquired by the owner of Airdrie United. As an aside, Clydebank FC have been reformed (again) and play in the West of Scotland League.
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Post by hatter_in_macc on Jul 22, 2022 13:44:48 GMT
Cheers, Yorks, for the additional info.
Think that the current Clydebank rub shoulders with our very own adopted faves, Yoker - or certainly have in recent years.
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Post by bringbacklenwhite on Jul 22, 2022 18:14:51 GMT
One of our Blackpool Senior Seasiders once played for Third Lanark.
When asked why he played for Third Lanark he said it was because there wasn't a Fourth Lanark !
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Post by gazz on Jul 22, 2022 18:17:56 GMT
This really is an excellent thread.
I remember Wet Wet Wet sponsoring Clydebank (their hometown club) during the 90s, I think this was maybe just for the one season?
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Post by woznorthyorksexile on Jul 22, 2022 18:31:09 GMT
One of our Blackpool Senior Seasiders once played for Third Lanark. When asked why he played for Third Lanark he said it was because there wasn't a Fourth Lanark ! The remains of their home ground Cathkin Park still stand in what I think is now a municipal park in a Glasgow suburb. There is still a football pitch there and you one of the stands can still be seen behind one of the goals.
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Post by woznorthyorksexile on Jul 22, 2022 18:35:43 GMT
Cheers, Yorks, for the additional info. Think that the current Clydebank rub shoulders with our very own adopted faves, Yoker - or certainly have in recent years. Clydebank are currently playing in the premier league and Yoker in the second division of the West of Scotland League, levels 6 and 8 respectively of the Scottish game.
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Post by woznorthyorksexile on Jul 27, 2022 8:15:17 GMT
There’s a slight change of plan with this one as, having read last week’s I realised it had not really covered that much. It is evolving as they say or, if you’d rather, I’m winging it.
The Scottish football pyramid. Part 2, a brief overview continued.
The history of Scottish football is quite complex as leagues and teams have come and gone and has undoubtedly been influenced by sometimes bitter disputes between leagues as characterised by the events such as those known as the “intermediate years” when, dismayed by the activities of Scottish professional clubs enticing their better players away without compensation to their clubs, a significant number of, largely Glasgow junior cubs broke away from the Junior League and started their own competition. The dispute, starting in 1925, took 6 years to resolve. The bickering continues to this day, and in particular, the decision by the Lowland League to firstly admit Rangers’ and Celtic’s B teams to last season’s competition and that of Heart’s this season.
The decision has been met with considerable and entirely predictable anger, particularly in the East of Scotland League whose members consider the decision to have been made solely out of the self-interest of the clubs regularly competing in the lower half of the Lowland League primarily because were those clubs to be relegated into the EoSL they would struggle to stay up at that level too. On the evidence of Saturday afternoon at Gretna, they undoubtedly have a point, and therein lies the root of the problems facing those in Scotland who want a genuine pyramid similar to the English league.
Traditionally, the game north of the border had been particularly fragmented. North of the Tay, the Highland League dominated, and had done so for years. In the south, the South of Scotland League was dominant despite its amateur status, both of which had senior league status despite the latter’s distinct lack of quality. The East of Scotland League also had senior status but was confined largely to the Edinburgh area whereas the most populous part of the country were only represented by the Junior League. This may not have been in and of itself a problem, except for the fact that junior clubs were generally of a higher standard than the rest. In the early 2000’s the Junior League reformed itself into north, west and east regions, each with their own pyramid system promoting into a super league at the top.
Another problem was the disparity in playing abilities and facilities as described earlier. Some senior clubs, by accident of history found themselves competing in the qualifying rounds of the Scottish cup despite playing at grounds that would not meet the requirements for competing in the Junior League with teams of a standard that could not compete even if the facilities met requirements. An example of this can be found at Wigtown and Bladnoch FC, a club with no pretensions to be anything other than it is, and a club that would genuinely struggle to compete in the upper reaches of the Stockport and District Sunday League.
In a bid to try and pull all these competing strands of the game together, the Scottish Football Association, recently under new management took a leading role in the formation of what has become a genuine pyramid, albeit with some remaining tensions still to resolve, as indeed there are in the English game where the issue of only one automatic promotion place out of the Conference remains a problem.
The biggest impetus for change came when the Sottish Premier League amalgamated with the Scottish Football League in 2013 and agreed that the bottom club of the SPFL as it is known would play off with the winners of a play-off tie between the respective Lowland and Highland leagues.
The lowland league was set up in very short order despite Junior League opposition who did nothing to encourage it. As a consequence, clubs making up the Lowland League came from the EoSL and SoSL, the one exception being East Kilbride. The following year, a further two clubs were admitted, including BSC Glasgow, a club with an interesting history of its own, of which more in a later piece.
As then constituted, the pyramid had a number of problems, caused mainly by the speed with which it was delivered. Not least amongst them was the refusal by the Highland League to reduce its size from 18 to 16 clubs to bring it in line with its Lowland counterpart and the cost to SoSl clubs of bringing their facilities up to standard as, from 2015 they had to meet the SFA’s licensing requirements.
The ability to satisfy SFA licensing requirements were not confined to members of these two leagues and was open to anyone, something that with hindsight may be regarded as providing an impetus to the creation of the pyramid in its present form. That however, will be the subject of the next piece.
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Post by ceefer on Aug 10, 2022 16:55:12 GMT
One of our Blackpool Senior Seasiders once played for Third Lanark. When asked why he played for Third Lanark he said it was because there wasn't a Fourth Lanark ! The remains of their home ground Cathkin Park still stand in what I think is now a municipal park in a Glasgow suburb. There is still a football pitch there and you one of the stands can still be seen behind one of the goals. I saw some photos of the terraces returned to nature. Very sad.
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Post by woznorthyorksexile on Sept 2, 2022 19:18:24 GMT
The Scottish football pyramid. Part 3, a brief overview continued.
Last time out, we’d reached 2014 with the formation and subsequent expansion of the Lowland League and introduced Scottish Club Licensing. I’ll refer to the licensing system from time to time in relation to individual clubs and academy status which some have whilst others do not however, for the purposes of this it is sufficient to say that there are four levels ranging from entry level which is fairly self-explanatory, to Gold. Since Celtic have apparently exceeded even the Gold Standard, an extra level has been added for such clubs although at present Celtic remain the only club to have been awarded the Platinum level.
At present, all Highland League clubs have entry level accreditation as do all Lowland League clubs, with the exception of Cumbernauld Colts and Broomhill Open Goal FC. Yes, that is their name, formerly Broomhill FC, a club based in Edinburgh and formerly BSC Glasgow FC but these clubs have been set up as development clubs and so are slightly different to the rest.
Back in the early years of pyramid development only Bonnyrigg Rose FC and Banks O’Dee FC successfully applied for a license although application was open to both Junior and Senior clubs. Even then, the former was giving notice of their intent, finally realised last season when they achieved promotion to the SFL. However, during that first wave of applications, the rules were changed. Any club wishing to be licensed had to commit to the SFA’s pyramid thereby joining the Highland League (HL) or Lowland League (LL) or the East of Scotland League (EoSL) as applicable, something many remained reluctant to do, such was the importance of junior football.
The LL had already embraced the concept of a pyramid by opening itself up to promotion/relegation as long as the qualifying clubs were licensed. The problem for the three clubs newly admitted to the LL and coming from the central belt area was that the region was dominated by the Junior League, some of whose attendance sizes gave them considerable influence despite their status. At this point it was by no means certain that the pyramid would take off.
One club for whom the new pyramid has been a vehicle to drive success has been Edinburgh FC, formerly Edinburgh City now competing in League one. Quite how far that success will extend for a club operating within the shadows cast by Heart of Midlothian and Hibernian remains to be seen however for now, as the club moves into a newly refurbished Meadowbank Stadium the immediate future looks assured.
Edinburgh City won the LL in 2015, losing the play off with Brora Rangers who subsequently lost to Montrose. They won it again the following season in a repeat of the previous season's game with HL Champions Brora Rangers. They subsequently beat East Stirling in the final to secure their league status.
Things have not been so easy for clubs down at the other end. Threave Rovers have demonstrate the issues facing SoSL clubs. The club was an early participant of the SFA’s licensing system and as such were invited to become inaugural members of the LL in 2013. The club plays its home games in Castle Douglas, population circa 4000 so found it difficult to compete at this level, finishing second bottom in their first season, then bottom in the two subsequent seasons. At the end of the 2015-16 season the club declined the opportunity to re-apply for membership of the Lowland League and rejoined the South of Scotland Football League.
Unfortunately for them, a number of their better players didn’t want to drop down a level and jumped ship for local rivals Dalbeattie Star and Annan Athletic both clubs with pretensions for greater things which, in the case of the latter have been realised as they now play in League two. The nett result has been the rise to predominance of Kirkcudbright rivals St Cuthberts Wanderers FC in the SoSL.
Whilst this was unfolding, it was becoming apparent that there was considerable enthusiasm for the pyramid much to the chagrin of the administrators of the Junior League who were given notice by its members that they should find a way to join in. Logically, this meant that the Junior game merge with the Senior game however the JFL administrators remained keen to maintain their independence. And that was a problem. In a breath-taking display of mismanagement by a small group of people apparently more interested in maintaining their own positions, the request was largely held in abeyance by obfuscation and delay, that is, until 2020. In 2020 the Junior League was hit by mass resignations of its member clubs keen on forcing the issue. The result is what we see today and that will be the subject of the next piece.
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Post by gazz on Sept 2, 2022 20:00:35 GMT
The Scottish football pyramid. Part 3, a brief overview continued. Last time out, we’d reached 2014 with the formation and subsequent expansion of the Lowland League and introduced Scottish Club Licensing. I’ll refer to the licensing system from time to time in relation to individual clubs and academy status which some have whilst others do not however, for the purposes of this it is sufficient to say that there are four levels ranging from entry level which is fairly self-explanatory, to Gold. Since Celtic have apparently exceeded even the Gold Standard, an extra level has been added for such clubs although at present Celtic remain the only club to have been awarded the Platinum level. At present, all Highland League clubs have entry level accreditation as do all Lowland League clubs, with the exception of Cumbernauld Colts and Broomhill Open Goal FC. Yes, that is their name, formerly Broomhill FC, a club based in Edinburgh and formerly BSC Glasgow FC but these clubs have been set up as development clubs and so are slightly different to the rest. Back in the early years of pyramid development only Bonnyrigg Rose FC and Banks O’Dee FC successfully applied for a license although application was open to both Junior and Senior clubs. Even then, the former was giving notice of their intent, finally realised last season when they achieved promotion to the SFL. However, during that first wave of applications, the rules were changed. Any club wishing to be licensed had to commit to the SFA’s pyramid thereby joining the Highland League (HL) or Lowland League (LL) or the East of Scotland League (EoSL) as applicable, something many remained reluctant to do, such was the importance of junior football. The LL had already embraced the concept of a pyramid by opening itself up to promotion/relegation as long as the qualifying clubs were licensed. The problem for the three clubs newly admitted to the LL and coming from the central belt area was that the region was dominated by the Junior League, some of whose attendance sizes gave them considerable influence despite their status. At this point it was by no means certain that the pyramid would take off. One club for whom the new pyramid has been a vehicle to drive success has been Edinburgh FC, formerly Edinburgh City now competing in League one. Quite how far that success will extend for a club operating within the shadows cast by Heart of Midlothian and Hibernian remains to be seen however for now, as the club moves into a newly refurbished Meadowbank Stadium the immediate future looks assured. Edinburgh City won the LL in 2015, losing the play off with Brora Rangers who subsequently lost to Montrose. They won it again the following season in a repeat of the previous season's game with HL Champions Brora Rangers. They subsequently beat East Stirling in the final to secure their league status. Things have not been so easy for clubs down at the other end. Threave Rovers have demonstrate the issues facing SoSL clubs. The club was an early participant of the SFA’s licensing system and as such were invited to become inaugural members of the LL in 2013. The club plays its home games in Castle Douglas, population circa 4000 so found it difficult to compete at this level, finishing second bottom in their first season, then bottom in the two subsequent seasons. At the end of the 2015-16 season the club declined the opportunity to re-apply for membership of the Lowland League and rejoined the South of Scotland Football League. Unfortunately for them, a number of their better players didn’t want to drop down a level and jumped ship for local rivals Dalbeattie Star and Annan Athletic both clubs with pretensions for greater things which, in the case of the latter have been realised as they now play in League two. The nett result has been the rise to predominance of Kirkcudbright rivals St Cuthberts Wanderers FC in the SoSL. Whilst this was unfolding, it was becoming apparent that there was considerable enthusiasm for the pyramid much to the chagrin of the administrators of the Junior League who were given notice by its members that they should find a way to join in. Logically, this meant that the Junior game merge with the Senior game however the JFL administrators remained keen to maintain their independence. And that was a problem. In a breath-taking display of mismanagement by a small group of people apparently more interested in maintaining their own positions, the request was largely held in abeyance by obfuscation and delay, that is, until 2020. In 2020 the Junior League was hit by mass resignations of its member clubs keen on forcing the issue. The result is what we see today and that will be the subject of the next piece. Excellent reading again, yorks. With Celtic being the only club to have platinum level, would Rangers have been awarded this had they not gone through those well-documented financial troubles a few years ago, or is that completely unrelated?
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Post by woznorthyorksexile on Sept 2, 2022 20:25:11 GMT
The Scottish football pyramid. Part 3, a brief overview continued. Last time out, we’d reached 2014 with the formation and subsequent expansion of the Lowland League and introduced Scottish Club Licensing. I’ll refer to the licensing system from time to time in relation to individual clubs and academy status which some have whilst others do not however, for the purposes of this it is sufficient to say that there are four levels ranging from entry level which is fairly self-explanatory, to Gold. Since Celtic have apparently exceeded even the Gold Standard, an extra level has been added for such clubs although at present Celtic remain the only club to have been awarded the Platinum level. At present, all Highland League clubs have entry level accreditation as do all Lowland League clubs, with the exception of Cumbernauld Colts and Broomhill Open Goal FC. Yes, that is their name, formerly Broomhill FC, a club based in Edinburgh and formerly BSC Glasgow FC but these clubs have been set up as development clubs and so are slightly different to the rest. Back in the early years of pyramid development only Bonnyrigg Rose FC and Banks O’Dee FC successfully applied for a license although application was open to both Junior and Senior clubs. Even then, the former was giving notice of their intent, finally realised last season when they achieved promotion to the SFL. However, during that first wave of applications, the rules were changed. Any club wishing to be licensed had to commit to the SFA’s pyramid thereby joining the Highland League (HL) or Lowland League (LL) or the East of Scotland League (EoSL) as applicable, something many remained reluctant to do, such was the importance of junior football. The LL had already embraced the concept of a pyramid by opening itself up to promotion/relegation as long as the qualifying clubs were licensed. The problem for the three clubs newly admitted to the LL and coming from the central belt area was that the region was dominated by the Junior League, some of whose attendance sizes gave them considerable influence despite their status. At this point it was by no means certain that the pyramid would take off. One club for whom the new pyramid has been a vehicle to drive success has been Edinburgh FC, formerly Edinburgh City now competing in League one. Quite how far that success will extend for a club operating within the shadows cast by Heart of Midlothian and Hibernian remains to be seen however for now, as the club moves into a newly refurbished Meadowbank Stadium the immediate future looks assured. Edinburgh City won the LL in 2015, losing the play off with Brora Rangers who subsequently lost to Montrose. They won it again the following season in a repeat of the previous season's game with HL Champions Brora Rangers. They subsequently beat East Stirling in the final to secure their league status. Things have not been so easy for clubs down at the other end. Threave Rovers have demonstrate the issues facing SoSL clubs. The club was an early participant of the SFA’s licensing system and as such were invited to become inaugural members of the LL in 2013. The club plays its home games in Castle Douglas, population circa 4000 so found it difficult to compete at this level, finishing second bottom in their first season, then bottom in the two subsequent seasons. At the end of the 2015-16 season the club declined the opportunity to re-apply for membership of the Lowland League and rejoined the South of Scotland Football League. Unfortunately for them, a number of their better players didn’t want to drop down a level and jumped ship for local rivals Dalbeattie Star and Annan Athletic both clubs with pretensions for greater things which, in the case of the latter have been realised as they now play in League two. The nett result has been the rise to predominance of Kirkcudbright rivals St Cuthberts Wanderers FC in the SoSL. Whilst this was unfolding, it was becoming apparent that there was considerable enthusiasm for the pyramid much to the chagrin of the administrators of the Junior League who were given notice by its members that they should find a way to join in. Logically, this meant that the Junior game merge with the Senior game however the JFL administrators remained keen to maintain their independence. And that was a problem. In a breath-taking display of mismanagement by a small group of people apparently more interested in maintaining their own positions, the request was largely held in abeyance by obfuscation and delay, that is, until 2020. In 2020 the Junior League was hit by mass resignations of its member clubs keen on forcing the issue. The result is what we see today and that will be the subject of the next piece. Excellent reading again, yorks. With Celtic being the only club to have platinum level, would Rangers have been awarded this had they not gone through those well-documented financial troubles a few years ago? According to the SFA Licensing Manual, criteria for each standard consider the following: - • Ground Criteria
• First Team Football Criteria
• Youth Team Football Criteria
• Legal, Administration, Finance and Codes of Practice Criteria
A great deal of care and attention has been given to the drafting of criteria. The focus has been on establishing
a set of quality standards for Scottish Football.
Scottish FA activities with regard to licensing are subject to third party scrutiny by UEFA in order to guarantee
the transparency and integrity of the system
I suppose it's entirely possible that the final criterion relating to finances has prevented it, particularly since they were still substantial £ millions (I want to say £25 million plus but don't quote me on that as I can't remember the figure off the top of my head) in debt when they came out of administration.
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