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Post by orfyduckmag on Apr 10, 2020 14:53:27 GMT
Hello folks – Stoke fan here in peace. I work on the ‘Duck’ fanzine and I’m planning a different type of article for our next issue – out whenever something approaching normal matchdays return to our lives once more. I aim to ask supporters of several clubs 5 questions about their perceptions of Stoke City in order a to create a big feature article “Us and Them.” For the following questions, feel free to answer in varied depth/ brevity but a couple of sentences at least for each is ideal: 1. Generally how do you see Stoke City the club – a rival? Non-entity? Certain type of club? Disdain? Admiration? Pity?! As a fixture – is it of general appeal? 2. Are there any Stoke players/ teams that have made an impression on you over the years? 3. Are there matches between your team and Stoke you recall hating/ loving? 4. In home / away matches, what have you made of the Stoke support? Any particular memories? 5. The Victoria Ground/ The New One – what did/ do you make our of our home ground(s)’ the grounds? Any particular experiences or impressions? Given our reputation over the years, this could be a risk but then again, it would be great if I could glean a diverse range of honest/ diverse/ cutting/ funny/ serious or even complimentary views. If you can be arsed, thanks for your time. Take care of yourselves, Lee Hawthorne orfyduckmag
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Post by dudleyhatter on Apr 10, 2020 16:42:19 GMT
Welcome Lee, this is just the kind of concept we enjoy on here. I fact games against you guys from the 90s were mentioned on here just a couple of days ago! I’ll have a think about my answers and get back to you soon!
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Post by hatter_in_macc on Apr 10, 2020 16:57:04 GMT
Likewise. Those early-'90s meetings were especially memorable! Will conjur up a few thoughts for you over the easter weekend, Lee.
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Post by orfyduckmag on Apr 10, 2020 18:37:34 GMT
Cheers mate - I was hoping you'd see it that way! Yes indeed, the early 90's were quite a time for SCFC - ours and yours. At your place in 1992 after our 1-1 draw, one of your fans nicked my cheeseburger off me - true story!
Hope to see you back in the League soon - its an awayday I miss.
Anyway, I look forward to your ideas. Best wishes.
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Post by orfyduckmag on Apr 10, 2020 18:38:27 GMT
I'd really appreciate that - thank you very much!
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Post by another_ruined_saturday on Apr 10, 2020 21:57:52 GMT
alright lee?
1. Generally how do you see Stoke City the club – a rival? Non-entity? Certain type of club? Disdain? Admiration? Pity?! As a fixture – is it of general appeal?
a former rival. only just over twenty years ago we laughed our collective arses off after the final day showdown that would see either you or man city relegated...and you both got relegated... bizarre to think we were a division above you and city the following season.
it was our biggest game for a couple of seasons, because we were both pushing for promotion from league one, including a play off semi, and we had the wembley game too. tension on the pitch as there was needle between some of the players. tension off the pitch, particularly exiting the victoria ground... i think as a fixture if we drew you in a cup, it would interest a lot of county fans, partly for the old rivalry, and partly due to getting to play someone from the rareified heights of the championship. i'm not that bothered - i'm more concerned about whether we ever get to face you as 'equals' (i.e. in the same division) in the league. i'm most bothered about us ascending the divisions - hopefully we could make ourselves into a club that hovers between league one and two again, but even that will take some doing. at the moment, those memories of playing you in the championship feel a bit hazy.
from afar, i took a bit of pride in you, and then burnley (our other hated rivals from the time), carving out your niches in the prem. the football was sometimes unlovely, but it always entertained me how much you upset arsene wenger. years ago i can remember listening to a phone in on the way back from a match and hearing a charlton fan saying he thought alan curbishley had taken them as far as he could and it was time for a change. they'd finished 7th in the prem the previous season, and look what happened afterwards. really interested to know whether you feel that you stokies did that with pulis, or whether you had a cycle of players coming to an end and he would have struggled to keep it going anyway.
2. Are there any Stoke players/ teams that have made an impression on you over the years?
wayne biggins and mark stein from those times in particular. perked my attention up when you signed butland, bojan and shaqiri as well. arnautovic either looked terrifying and unplayable or just threw his arms in the air and looked disinterested from what i could see on the MOTD highlights.
3. Are there matches between your team and Stoke you recall hating/ loving?
yeah. the first time at the victoria ground in league one after we'd been in the bottom tier for donkey's years. i was used to going to a few grounds bigger than ours, like leeds road, but we played at your place early on in our first season up and it was proper ground, proper crowd, proper atmosphere. you were 2-0 up and laughing at us. although we'd pulled one back, a load of your fans came down the side to give us a bit more abuse as they were leaving late on. big kev equalised for us in about the 88th minute and those same fans were hopping about in a rage as we turned on the laughter, before launching a hearty 'you're not singing anymore'.
4. In home / away matches, what have you made of the Stoke support? Any particular memories?
...and then four or five skinheads stepped out from a bus shelter as we were walking back to the car. they noted my grandad was with us and one of them said 'leave it - grandad's with them' which was a bit of relief. all i remember about stoke at the time was skinheads in denim dungarees.
you generally filled the railway end at edgeley, but without a roof, songs and chants are harder to catch on and kind of drift away. i remember there being a lot of red and white at wembley, and a stokie giving us some verbal filling up at a petrol station on the way home, but us reminding him that we'd be back at wembley the following weekend, whereas he wouldn't.
you've done a little bit more to the britannia i think since i went in the late nineties. on first impressions, it seemed like a typical new lego stadium. your fans were having a protest about the ownership. i feel like it was peter coates, but wasn't it him you also had the prem years under?
also saw a league cup game from the leeds kop that was a 0-0 draw, but stoke played really well and your fans were really loud. you had a big forward that i can't quite place now who i'd always thought was a proper journeyman, but played great that night, holding everything up and just causing leeds problems.
5. The Victoria Ground/ The New One – what did/ do you make our of our home ground(s)’ the grounds? Any particular experiences or impressions?
i 'liked' the victoria ground, as in impressed by, a bit in love with as a proper old football ground with decent loud support, and very intimidated getting to and away from it. seem to remember having to cross a couple of footbridges and walking for quite a while to get to the britannia. i could see stoke in the distance. i get the reasons, but i like football grounds in communities. i'm quite proud that you can walk down residential streets and the facade of our main stand, with 'stockport county afc' on the facade, hoves into view.
that got away from me a bit...best of luck if any football ever happens again and stay healthy.
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Post by gazz on Apr 10, 2020 23:16:58 GMT
1. Generally how do you see Stoke City the club – a rival? Non-entity? Certain type of club? Disdain? Admiration? Pity?! As a fixture – is it of general appeal? A rival of sorts back in the early 90s, but since then we've drifted so far apart that it's hard to believe that we were once locking horns in a promotion playoff semifinal!2. Are there any Stoke players/ teams that have made an impression on you over the years? Although I hate to admit it, but Mark Stein. He was a horrible little sh*t, but he was one hell of a dangerous player. I knew he'd been in the top flight with Luton and dropped down the divisions, but I wasn't surprised to see him get back to the top flight again with Chelsea, as he was quick and very sharp in front of goal.3. Are there matches between your team and Stoke you recall hating/ loving? That Wembley final, although ending in defeat, will always be a special memory for me. This was Stockport County playing at Wembley, which was totally unheard of. Then the playoff semi final win at the Victoria. I'll never forget standing in your away end at the final whistle and trying to get my head around County having secured two trips to Wembley - it was the stuff of dreams.4. In home / away matches, what have you made of the Stoke support? Any particular memories? After that playoff win, I was making my way back to my mate's car with my girlfriend's 13 year old cousin who I took to the game, when a load of your fans stormed the street we were on. I had to drag the poor bugger into the side passage of a house to avoid getting caught up in it. When it all calmed down, we broke cover and headed for the car again, seeing a County fan lay against a wall half conscious along the way. I've never 'got' fan violence and never will. 5. The Victoria Ground/ The New One – what did/ do you make our of our home ground(s)’ the grounds? Any particular experiences or impressions? Aside from that journey back to the car, I enjoyed a couple of trips to the Victoria. The 2-2 draw earlier that season was decent, with the size and quality of grounds like yours, West Brom's and Brum's really making me realise that we were among some big clubs now - this was a totally different standard to what we were used to.
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Post by orfyduckmag on Apr 11, 2020 12:08:35 GMT
Folks - this is brilliant stuff so far - please keep it coming! Of the 15 message boards, I've contacted, yours and West Ham are streets ahead in terms of quality replies.
It will make for a cracking fanzine article in the near future...
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Post by hatter_in_macc on Apr 11, 2020 15:10:35 GMT
Here you go, Lee...
1. Generally how do you see Stoke City the club – a rival? Non-entity? Certain type of club? Disdain? Admiration? Pity?! As a fixture – is it of general appeal?
As a young lad, getting into football in the early 1970s, I liked Stoke. They were top-flight underdogs, but with plenty of characters in their squad. Everyone, without exception, loved Gordon Banks - especially on the back of THAT save in Mexico '70. I remember Jackie Marsh, who, unusually for the time, wore contact lenses. Dennis Smith appeared to get either of his legs broken at the drop of a hat, before returning to action in a trice. And then there was George Eastham, who capped a long career in his mid-to-late thirties by scoring the winner at Wembley against Chelsea's highly-fancied Kings of King's Road to end the club's long wait for a first major trophy. And Stoke - or, at least, a chanting ensemble called The Potters - were one of the first clubs to chart, as 'We'll be with You' coincided with that League Cup Final win. All good stuff, at least in the mind of a football-crazy kid.
Every schoolboy knew, too, that Stoke were the League's second-oldest club. I have to say I felt a tad sorry for you last year when Notts County dropped out, and Forest put up a claim to assume their near-neighbours' longevity crown on the basis that Stoke's origins were sketchy. After all, no-one had bothered to question them before!
County and Stoke went over 60 years between sharing Third Division North status during 1926/27 and that concentration of tense, febrile tussles in the nationwide third tier of 1991/92. So there was no history of a rivalry to speak of. And not really much geographical basis for one, either. Stoke, of course, had Port Fail (as I have heard them referred to down your way) on the doorstep to goad. And our previous couple of decades of consistent under-achievement in the bottom tier had left us feeling more entwined, albeit in a half-hearted way, with not-that-near-but-nearer-than-the-Potteries-neighbours Crewe and Rochdale. (Not sure if we ever called the latter Roch-fail, mind...)
All of a sudden, though, there was a rivalry, in much the same way as one had developed between us and Burnley over five League and Cup meetings the previous season. Snatching a point, after going two-down, at the Victoria Ground before September was out gave Hatters the assurance that we could go to big stadia and compete at our new level against the backdrop of a febrile atmosphere... other than at Birmingham, where we would inevitably get stuffed.
The return, goalless fixture at Edgeley Park and the two play-off matches were also incredibly tight - but ultimately joyous, so far as County were concerned. And our Wembley meeting, despite the outcome (more of which under (3) below), still felt special with it being County's first-ever trip to the Twin Towers. We were pretty sure, too, that Stoke fans would swap places with us in a heartbeat and trade in the Autoglass Trophy for another jaunt to Wembley the following weekend and the chance of promotion we were to have then. I remember on Wembley Way preparing to take a photo of my Dad, but letting a group of your supporters walk across our path before saying: "It's ok, lads, we'll do this when we come back for the Play-off Final." And, eight days later, I rather wished I hadn't when we failed, in heartbreaking style, to get over the line against Peterborough, and then, on our homeward journey, had to endure the sight of jeering Stoke fans, with banners, across the bridges over the M6 through Staffordshire.
Oops... rather more than a couple of sentences! But we can probably leave it there, as Stoke gained automatic promotion the following season, and, with that, the erstwhile intensity of our relationship rather dimmed. It has now been 22 years since our paths have crossed - and although County were in the higher division for the first four of those, we have been well adrift, and feeling rather envious, throughout the 18 following that.
More brevity from now on, I promise...
2. Are there any Stoke players/ teams that have made an impression on you over the years?
All, naturally, from the early '90s. I remember there being a number of players whose surnames needed in 'on'... Overson, Cranson and - oh yes - Beeston.
Carl Beeston was, in the eyes of Hatters, a classic pantomime villain, whose presence added to the spice of the matches. His presence didn't last too long, mind, at the first-leg play-off encounter in SK3, where he clobbered Jim Gannon and earned a very early bath. 'Bertie' Biggins was another we loved to taunt, as he continually went to ground in our box, before staring in wide-eyed disbelief on not winning a penalty.
And then there was Mark Stein. A classic case of an opponent to sneakingly, if grudgingly, admire. He was clearly a class above most players in Division Three, obviously enjoyed scoring against us, and the altercation he had with Gannon served all the more to make Hatters snarl in his earshot. That said, I would have loved to see him partner Big Kevin Francis up top, and tear apart all-comers, at EP.
From the same era - although, due to injury towards the end of 1991/92, not particularly remembered as an opponent - was the late Paul Ware, who, after playing a part in Stoke's promotion from the third tier in 1993, did likewise for us four years later. Classy player, whose curling shot at Carlisle remains one of the best County goals I have ever seen. Tragically taken from the world far, far too soon.
3. Are there matches between your team and Stoke you recall hating/loving?
I certainly loved more than I hated! The two play-off matches were exciting beyond belief, while clawing back a two-goal deficit at the Victoria Ground several months earlier had felt more like a victory than a draw. I was also at the old ground in 1997 for what proved to be the final FA Cup-tie there, and it was nice to write our names in your history books with a win on a foggy mid-January night.
The Wembley defeat was one with which, if truth be told, most of us (despite the thrill of playing at the national stadium) will have felt a little disappointed and frustrated. The decisions didn't go our way that afternoon, with Paul Wheeler's goal getting ruled out, and Biggins being in an offside position when Stein struck the decisive blow. But it was still a good day out!
4. In home / away matches, what have you made of the Stoke support? Any particular memories?
Always vociferous, vehement and vocal inside the ground - and turned out in good numbers. 'Delilah' was the song of choice, which, as a Welshman, I would favour any day over Vale's adoption of 'The Wonder of You'!
Living in Macclesfield, I have a few friends who follow Stoke - and I have to say that, among the many more I didn't know, I never experienced any bother before or after matches.
5. The Victoria Ground/ The New One – what did/ do you make our of our home ground(s)’ the grounds? Any particular experiences or impressions?
Loved the Victoria Ground - a proper, old venue full of character, at which we saw some thrillers. Car park's surface was a bit rough on the suspension, I recall!
Have been to the New One a couple of times: once to watch County in mid-September 1997, when, despite summer still not being done, the wind cut through the gaps between the stands to make it feel more like mid-February; and once to see your FA Cup-tie against my original home-town club Lewes - the one that saw two Lewes players jump over the ball, leaving no-one left to take a free-kick, which to this day remains a staple clip on 'Bloopers' vids and 'What Happened Next?'!
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Post by hatter_in_macc on Apr 14, 2020 14:13:50 GMT
Have just added a paragraph under (2) about Paul Ware - RIP - who, while not featuring notably in the matches between our clubs, played for both with such distinction.
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Post by gazz on Apr 14, 2020 14:42:28 GMT
Paul Ware - RIP - who, while not featuring notably in the matches between our clubs, played for both with such distinction. Absolutely
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Post by orfyduckmag on Apr 15, 2020 19:29:43 GMT
Evening one and all Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my trespassing on your territory. It was obviously a bit of a stupid/ brave risk venturing on here asking about your perceptions of all things Stoke City. I’ve seen the whole range of tones/ comments haven’t I?! Nothing has really surprised me in terms of positives or negatives. Given the Pulis years/ our recent political trends/ the caper of a section of our support over the years... I knew what was coming. We are divisive club in the sense that folk seem either charmed by us (plenty of begrudgingly respect) or else we are downright despised! Believe me, we are as divided in house – getting our fanbase to reach a consensus on anything from Brexit to Pulis is impossible. There are plenty of lefty football purists who buy our mag at least! As with any city/ club though, there’s more to it than meets the eye: generalisations were always going to crop up. That's the nature of what we do isn't it? I also expected a lot of love for our old ground compared to our new place. What I would give to go back and stand once more on that old Boothen End terrace at The Victoria Ground. What was heartwarming was the depth of knowledge and rich memories that football fans hold onto. I love the obscure links we have between our cities/ towns/ clubs through mates/ family/ jobs etc. I sent out these 5 questions to fans of over 20 clubs. So far, it seems that fans of Wolves/ Everton/ Sunderland/ Liverpool/ West Ham/ PNE/ Oldham and Man City have responded in enough detail to warrant an individual article in the fanzine. I didn’t bother with Crewe, Vale or Arsenal for obvious reasons. One foaming Gooner did hijack the Liverpool to forum to have a pop though – him doing that made me feel like less of a sad b****** for what I was doing on there! Whenever matchdays return to our lives, I will get cracking on some of these, publish them and then post them onto the respective forums. I will have one more check in a few days in case any late contributions have surfaced. Cheers to moderators for allowing this as well. Whether you were dismissive/ funny/ bitter/ knowledgeable/ brutal or complimentary – thanks very much for your time. Some wonderful stories emerged out of this – it made me realise how much we all have in common (every club seems to have a similar cross-section of folk). Best wishes orfyduckmag
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Post by another_ruined_saturday on Apr 15, 2020 19:50:34 GMT
you're very welcome. it was pretty interesting to do.
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Post by gazz on Apr 15, 2020 21:53:39 GMT
It was really good of you to join up and involve us, so thanks for taking the time!
If you do go ahead and publish your article, I think it would be a very interesting read.
Good luck and stay safe, mate.
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