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Post by gazz on Dec 9, 2013 15:35:09 GMT
members3.boardhost.com/marionsboard/thread/1386597503.htmlThis post in particular made me laugh from a guy who makes it his goal in life to rubbish Jim at every opportunity, the first post was cut short so it would fit in here, but you get the gist:   Funny, my recollection of last season was that Jim was sacked in the middle of January. Criticise Jim for his shortcomings, yes, but that is just laughable.
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Post by Admin on Dec 9, 2013 17:35:54 GMT
Did you not know, Gazza?
The season ends in January mate, Bosnian Dave just oversaw a bunch of friendlies.
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Post by archie on Dec 9, 2013 18:08:49 GMT
To be fair, Jim's average points per game last season would have seen us in much the same position at the end of the season.
If you discount Jim's part in our downfall, by the same logic you have to refuse to credit him with keeping us up the previous season.
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Post by gazz on Dec 9, 2013 18:17:02 GMT
To be fair, Jim's average points per game last season would have seen us in much the same position at the end of the season. If you discount Jim's part in our downfall, by the same logic you have to refuse to credit him with keeping us up the previous season. He said he got us relegated, archie, he did not get us relegated. As for that comparison between going down/staying up, I couldn't disagree more. So you're saying that if DK had kept us up then Jim should have been credited with helping us consolidate our BSP place? That's just nonsense. Sorry, mate, I know it's a strong word but it is. |
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Post by gazz on Dec 9, 2013 18:37:17 GMT
I know it looks like I'm singling you out here (I really am not, mate) but I have to pick something else up there, archie, the averages do not tell the full story. Averages do not show a board deliberately choking him of his resources, then affording the new manager the money that was held back...
Lies, damn lies and statistics.
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Post by Admin on Dec 9, 2013 18:40:16 GMT
Darije won his first couple of games against Nuneaton and Lincoln, both hugely winnable games, JG could've won them you can compare at all, maybe Sammy Mac would have completed his miracle from the year before who knows? It's impossible to say what could've happened, the fact remains is that we weren't down when Jim took over, therefore he didn't send up down!
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Post by archie on Dec 9, 2013 18:47:59 GMT
Well no, he certainly didn't get us relegated. He did, however, bring in his own squad (within a budget that he knew was tough but did know) that brought in the same points ratio as his successors.
I said at the time that I didn't agree with the sacking because I believe in letting someone do the complete job. At the same time I can understand why he was sacked. It seemed to me that he was looking for funds extra to the agreed budget and was effectively ducking out of any responsibility for failing to produce on the original budget. It doesn't absolve anyone else from blame for the way in why the whole situation was handled but Jim had effectively lost a dressing room that he had created.
If DK had kept us up I'm sure that there would have been plenty who would have said that it was done with Jim's players. The DK signing was eerily like the Southampton situation when Adkins was sacked but you can't say that that turned out badly. I've nothing but admiration for Jim's time as a player and in his first spell as a manager but I really don't think that his second spell worked.
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Post by Admin on Dec 9, 2013 18:53:06 GMT
I agree it was his squad but was his squad tainted by players like Nolan and McConville that he didn't sign but were on contracts too big to release?
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Post by gazz on Dec 9, 2013 19:12:55 GMT
Well no, he certainly didn't get us relegated. He did, however, bring in his own squad (within a budget that he knew was tough but did know) that brought in the same points ratio as his successors. I said at the time that I didn't agree with the sacking because I believe in letting someone do the complete job. At the same time I can understand why he was sacked. It seemed to me that he was looking for funds extra to the agreed budget and was effectively ducking out of any responsibility for failing to produce on the original budget. It doesn't absolve anyone else from blame for the way in why the whole situation was handled but Jim had effectively lost a dressing room that he had created. If DK had kept us up I'm sure that there would have been plenty who would have said that it was done with Jim's players. The DK signing was eerily like the Southampton situation when Adkins was sacked but you can't say that that turned out badly. I've nothing but admiration for Jim's time as a player and in his first spell as a manager but I really don't think that his second spell worked. I don't believe he was looking for extra funds to be honest, I truly believe that he was misled over his budget. You have to look into why HtH had to bring O'Donnell in, and why there was money available after he left. That question remains unanswered. What I will say, is that I understand where you're coming from with your point regarding had DK kept them up then Jim's players would have been credited, but I don't think that's quite the same as crediting Jim with the achievement. Also, the only other instance I could see myself mentioning Jim would be used more in the defence of Jim's time before he was sacked, to argue why he wasn't given enough time with those players he brought in. Knowing what I know about the departure of some high profile people recently, and believe me I do know, and the way McKnight and Snape dealt with those matters, I'm convinced that they were exactly the same with Jim. Whether or not the actions of McKnight are of his own limited intelligence or have been taken from someone else's 'to do' list, we'll never know, but someone went all out to rid the club of all 'County' people this year. There aren't any left at the club now, not a single one. Now why is that? Jim may not have been a huge success second time around, but he did not just turn into a complete flop overnight. I'm not for one minute trying to suggest that he was innocent in all this, but what I am saying is that the knives were out well before Christmas and he was being deliberately hampered, and if anyone thinks that sacking him in January after holding back funds isn't a manufactured dismissal then frankly I don't know what is. |
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Post by gazz on Dec 9, 2013 19:24:46 GMT
I agree it was his squad but was his squad tainted by players like Nolan and McConville that he didn't sign but were on contracts too big to release? Who signed those players? Hamann. Who gave him the go ahead to sign those players? Tony Evans. Who was involved in giving the aforementioned Tony Evans carte blanche to do so? Mr Peter Snape. The same Peter Snape who publicly slagged Jim off on the radio and launched * into a tirade about part-time teams, then kept his big foodbank shut when we were losing to them on a weekly basis. Snape was the problem, and it was on his 'watch' that the club signed all those w**kers in the first place, and he barely looked up from his three course lunch to ask who they were. The loathsome fat get. *This was originally typed out as 'lunched' - oh, the irony! |
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Post by another_ruined_saturday on Dec 9, 2013 20:45:44 GMT
The DK signing was eerily like the Southampton situation when Adkins was sacked but you can't say that that turned out badly. DK and pochettino even look eerily similar! also, neither of them had the foggiest about the english non-leagues. this was only an issue in one case however... i agree that the first half of last season was pretty dreadful (apart from the tiny high of being joint top after the first two games!), but as has already been stated, part of jim/the club's work during that part of the season was continuing to shift out unwanted players from the previous regime who had been handed two year contracts. either HtH or RESB (can't quite remember which) paid the wages of connor jennings during his loan, and he was one of the undoubted bright spots of last season. yet then there's suddenly money for our fantasy footballing chief exec or whoever to bring five players in...all of whom DK either cluelessly picked at once or was forced to play... that's the bit that's difficult to take. i think jim's sometimes his own worst enemy - sometimes you've just got to pick your battles and bite your tongue on others. ultimately though, they weren't prepared to support him during the season, and there was a sense in which while it was still a shock, the die was cast after snape's 'part time sides' comment on the radio - it showed what they were thinking. drastic action might have been more justifiable had they kept us up, but we all know the catalogue of disaster that occurred afterwards. |
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