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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 21:24:39 GMT
Oooh great. A new low. Just when you think it can't get any f***ing worse this club always manages to kick you in the b*ll*cks.
Letting a 3 goal lead slip and then failing to beat a crap team that played with 9 men for an hour is a disgrace. What's worse is that fact it was against that shower of s*** - they aren't even the best tribute act to Manure in this division.
Thoroughly embarrassing. Well done County, you have excelled yourself once again.
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Post by hermannsays on Oct 4, 2017 9:37:38 GMT
The only good thing to have read last night is a tweet like this:
Sadly the lack of creativity/goal threat last night was hardly surprising. The highest goalscorer in the match squad was Winter (2). Usually you can then look to set plays but, while we have scored from Walker's corners 3 times and from FK crosses from Walker/Hampson, Oswell has been the one putting them in (except 1). We've had no goals from CBs - no matter how many of them we play. So, again, there was a statistical inevitability to the 15+ corners leading to nothing. Ball was probably the best bet for a goal 'on paper' based on last season's tally as a #10... but it sounded like he ended up at CB.
So, as bad as losing a 3 goal lead and then losing to 9 men is - and ultimately no-one can make excuses for a repeated shambles in terms of results - there's also the above reality of simply not having a second #9 to score in the absence of Oswell and too little creativity in the absence of Warburton.
I echo everyone's comments above about wanting JG to remain. At the moment though, the individual 'asks' on players seem too high a jump for the reality of their abilities. At the same time, the entire team - and remember, lots have considerable experience - looks confused by the ever-changing shapes. While JG knows more about tactics than most pro coaches, it's irrelevant if instructions are too complicated for players. Yes, we can say the players need to leave but for what outcome... replacements who also won't be able to be floating CBs or play 3 or 4 systems well within the same game?
In my work, I have to keep things simple for those adults I work with to make things achievable for them. I may know about sociocultural theory and I could talk at length to parents about children in liminal spaces but, no matter how well they want to do for their kids, it's not going see a positive outcome. I'm sure the same is true for each of us in our work.
But we know JG can 'show it' and for it to be positive. I just feel that we need to see more of his 'Minihan' improvements - slight adjustments to a player's existing game in a role he can play well already. If each player can have something added to their game then that's something a lot of coaches can't achieve. When it's then added to the other things few could achieve for us - the off-field professionalisation, the strong focus on discipline and the very simple but effective moves (like 2 on 1 = short corner) then the best of JG will shine through onto the pitch.
It's genuinely so pleasing to see something simple carried out well and to know JG's behind it. Sometimes, it just seems like the sheer 'want' to make us better leaves him feeling that he has to put the ball in the net himself, keep the clean himself etc... and so he must change something given that's all he can actually do from the sidelines.
When we have a good squad but know individuals and the team can improve, that's not a bad place to be in. When we have a good manager but know he can improve bits himself and convert his experience and knowledge to achieve the improved players/team, then we know we have the right man. Hopefully nothing dramatic happens and we see JG work through this disappointment and ignore any ridiculous calls for him to go. I appreciate that sometimes my own posts question things - and I think that's healthy from all fans - but I'm in no doubt that to get rid of JG would not bring the improvements JG can bring.
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Post by gazz on Oct 4, 2017 10:33:28 GMT
Sorry, H, but I'm not on board with that excuse regarding complicated tactics. These players should know the game, and if they didn't before coming here they should be learning by now.
There's no excuse in that respect. If they don't know or don't learn, they should stick to their day jobs. They should understand when told what's expected of them, if they fail to carry out their instructions, then the blame lies squarely at their feet.
I'm not saying Jim's instructions have always been right, but the notion that the instructions are too complicated for the players? Sorry, matey, I'm not buying that at all.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 11:44:02 GMT
Sorry, H, but I'm not on board with that excuse regarding complicated tactics. These players should know the game, and if they didn't before coming here they should be learning by now. There's no excuse in that respect. If they don't know or don't learn, they should stick to their day jobs. They should understand when told what's expected of them, if they fail to carry out their instructions, then the blame lies squarely at their feet. I'm not saying Jim's instructions have always been right, but the notion that the instructions are too complicated for the players? Sorry, matey, I'm not buying that at all. I appreciate the point you're making but if, for reasons of understanding or ability the players can't cope/adapt with/to the ask, the ask has to change. If the players aren't up to it then one has to question why they are at the club?
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Post by gazz on Oct 4, 2017 12:49:02 GMT
I appreciate the point you're making but if, for reasons of understanding or ability the players can't cope/adapt with/to the ask, the ask has to change. If the players aren't up to it then one has to question why they are at the club? The ask must never change, otherwise why bother employing a manager in the first place if not to do the job his way? The manager carries the can every single time, and every single time they fail they get sacked while the players remain. The least a manager should be afforded is carte blanche to run the team his way and under his terms. If a player can't handle that - tara! Now, on the matter of whether or not the player should be there if he can't deliver what is being asked of him, that is a valid point. However, in my defence I didn't say that Jim should not be accountable for that, because I agree the he most definitely should be. The problem is, however, it's not always the manager at fault when signings don't work out either - look at James Tunnicliffe's gutless second spell and how that panned out for Jim. I can accept Jim making one or two bad signings, he's human, but not a squad full. Something's not right there, and I'm just glad that I don't have to be the one that needs to figure that one out.
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Post by jimboslovechild on Oct 4, 2017 13:31:12 GMT
I don't know if it is an issue of complexity / lack of understanding, or more one of unfamiliarity / lack of time to adapt or adjust. As a general rule, I think part-time teams with limited training time should be aiming to find a consistent formation and use players in roles they are familiar with. Jimmy Ball ended up at CB during both games against FCUM, and we played yesterday without a recognised striker because we don't have a cover player in the squad. Alongside this, we seem to start every game with a different formation -- and then change it at HT.
This seems to go against a lot of Gannon's own principles. In his first spell, we had a solid shape with a consistent defensive approach, and a clear game plan to use a point attacker when going forward. Last year was the same, albeit the quality of the strikers wasn't what we had hoped.
I can understand how being tactically flexible is a great idea, but it's tough when you have restricted time to practise and players who are learning new roles and positions. I think we would be better off working out our strongest setup and then building in some variations through personnel and attacking shape.
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Post by hermannsays on Oct 4, 2017 14:49:27 GMT
Yup, I think that's a good point, jlc. JG refers to the average levels of players and also the limited way they've been 'brought up' in terms of their football - full backs throwing without thought etcetc.
If you work with players every day then, over a couple of years, you can probably expect them to improve individually and to know a handful of systems well. If you work with players a couple of nights a week then... not so much.
Last season, JG referred to having to go back to basics as what he was asking of his players was clearly too much. We then went on a strong run and much of the main shape change was simply to match up against back 3s.
Curiously, we were able to get our best result against a back 3 (Brackley away) with a back 4. Again this season, we've changed to match up against the likes of Salford but then been able to smash a Southport back 3 (while they had 11 men) using a back 4 and diamond midfield.
Again, perhaps that simply indicates that although a particular system should work best, the ability of the players to carry it out does require sufficient experience and understanding of it... especially as JG's specific requirements of players within each shape will differ to other managers the players have played under.
At the same time, I think a role like Ball is being asked to do is complicated to the extent that it sounds beyond what was asked of Montrose, who had more experience as a defensive midfielder and a visible instinct for defensive positioning. So JG's comments on Ball's role requires a level of football intelligence quite a way beyond 'shielding' like almost all 4s do in this league (and all leagues, really?).
In the end, JG has worked with many of these players last year as well as elsewhere. Every player here now is someone he's selected to be here. There's no reason for them to look so confused in some systems unless they genuinely are - and it does include our most experienced players such as O'Halloran looking over to asking what's meant to be happening. It's picked up by ex pros/semipros and JK on comms and by fans in the stands.
So, I think you're right - the contact time can't possibly leave players confident, or competent, in all the different roles and systems they're asked to play between games and within games. Perhaps we'll enter a more settled period, as we did last season, where there's a bit of consistency from game to game and the team will grow into something.
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